George Saunders On: Getting Un-Stuck, Calming the Inner Critic, and Building Empathy Without Becoming a Chump

About this episode

<p dir="ltr">A conversation with celebrated author George Saunders about his new novel, Vigil, and what fiction can teach us about empathy, self-awareness, and mortality.</p> <p dir="ltr">George Saunders is the bestselling, award-winning author of Lincoln in the Bardo, Tenth of December, and many other books. His new novel, Vigil, tells the story of a woman who died in 1976 and has spent the decades since comforting the dying—until she encounters a former oil executive responsible for early climate change denial.</p> <p dir="ltr">In this conversation, Dan and George talk about:</p> <ul> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">Why George keeps writing about ghosts and the afterlife (hint: it's not just about mortality dread)</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">The lavish empathy at the heart of Vigil—and whether we should extend that empathy even to people doing civilizational damage</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">What George calls "warm metacognition"—the practice of dropping back out of your thought loops to examine what kind of goggles you're wearing</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">How fiction can turn your mind into a "reconsideration machine" (and why that matters in real life)</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">The difference between kindness and niceness</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">George's relationship with death anxiety, which he's had since childhood and which has only intensified with age</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">What George has learned about listening from teaching and hosting his Substack, Story Club</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">Why the older he gets, the more important it is to stretch himself creatively</p> </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation">His advice for dealing with stuckness (in writing and in life): curiosity over self-accusation</p> </li> </ul> <p dir="ltr">George's new novel Vigil is out January 27th from Random House. Check out his Substack, <a href= "https://georgesaunders.substack.com/">Story Club</a>, where he discusses classic short stories with an incredibly thoughtful community.</p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Related Episodes:</p> <ul> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> <p dir="ltr" role="presentation"><a href= "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/10-happier-with-dan-harris/id1087147821?i=1000582335529"> George Saunders on "Holy Befuddlement" and How to Be Less of a "Turd"</a></p> </li> </ul> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">Get the 10% with Dan Harris app <a href= "https://app.danharris.com/membership">here</a></p> <p dir="ltr">Sign up for Dan's free newsletter <a href= "http://www.danharris.com/">here</a></p> <p dir="ltr">Follow Dan on social: <a href= "https://bit.ly/3tGigG5">Instagram</a>, <a href= "https://bit.ly/3FOA84J">TikTok</a></p> <p dir="ltr">Subscribe to our <a href= "https://bit.ly/3FybRzD">YouTube Channel</a></p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p dir="ltr">To advertise on the show, contact sales@advertisecast.com or visit <a href= "https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris">https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris</a></p> <p> </p>